[#383997] CORE - Alternative Variable Substitution — Ilias Lazaridis <ilias@...>

ruby 1.9

21 messages 2011/06/01

[#384051] CORE - Replace "if __FILE__ == $0" with "executed?" — Ilias Lazaridis <ilias@...>

The construct to detect execution of the file (in order to launch main

12 messages 2011/06/02

[#384104] CORE - Altering Behaviour of "each do" (default param "item") — Ilias Lazaridis <ilias@...>

1.9

76 messages 2011/06/04
[#384111] Re: CORE - Altering Behaviour of "each do" (default param "item") — James Gray <james@...> 2011/06/04

On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 6:50 AM, Ilias Lazaridis <ilias@lazaridis.com> wrote:

[#384154] Re: CORE - Altering Behaviour of "each do" (default param "item") — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2011/06/05

Hi,

[#384168] Re: CORE - Altering Behaviour of "each do" (default param "item") — Ilias Lazaridis <ilias@...> 2011/06/06

On 6 撫, 01:11, Yukihiro Matsumoto <m...@ruby-lang.org> wrote:

[#384228] a little challenge - reproduce this error — Intransition <transfire@...>

Want to see a really amazing error I got this week? Okay... but to

24 messages 2011/06/08
[#384230] Re: a little challenge - reproduce this error — Steve Klabnik <steve@...> 2011/06/08

throw NameError.new("uninitialized constant X::Foo::X")

[#384231] Re: a little challenge - reproduce this error — John Feminella <johnf@...> 2011/06/08

This is a pretty trivial error to generate. Just reference the

[#384232] Re: a little challenge - reproduce this error — Intransition <transfire@...> 2011/06/08

[#384235] Re: a little challenge - reproduce this error — Christopher Dicely <cmdicely@...> 2011/06/08

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 6:43 AM, Intransition <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:

[#384279] CORE - Literal Instantiation breaks Object Model — Ilias Lazaridis <ilias@...>

class String

14 messages 2011/06/09

[#384280] BARRIER - require "rubygems" — Ilias Lazaridis <ilias@...>

ruby 1.9.2p180 Windows 7

30 messages 2011/06/09

[#384283] Classic Computer Science Books — Stu <stu@...>

I wanted to start a thread discussion on classic computer science

38 messages 2011/06/09
[#384288] Re: Classic Computer Science Books — Josh Cheek <josh.cheek@...> 2011/06/10

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Stu <stu@rubyprogrammer.net> wrote:

[#384289] Re: Classic Computer Science Books — Chad Perrin <code@...> 2011/06/10

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 09:22:58AM +0900, Josh Cheek wrote:

[#384291] Re: Classic Computer Science Books — Stu <stu@...> 2011/06/10

Thank you for the responses. I look forward to reading others.

[#384346] Re: Classic Computer Science Books — Anurag Priyam <anurag08priyam@...> 2011/06/11

> queue to read Meyers C++ books and Crockford's Javascript: The Good

[#384349] Re: Classic Computer Science Books — Stu <stu@...> 2011/06/11

Hello Anurag

[#384430] Re: Classic Computer Science Books — Anurag Priyam <anurag08priyam@...> 2011/06/13

Hey Stu,

[#384464] Re: Classic Computer Science Books — Vin兤ius <undvinicius@...> 2011/06/14

Wow, those are a lot of books, as a beginner programmer, I don't have

[#384322] PSA: Ilias is Crazy — Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@...>

I guess I have to post this periodically since our population is growing and changing so much.

18 messages 2011/06/10

[#384363] RFC - One word alias for require_relative — Ilias Lazaridis <ilias@...>

This is a simple Request for Comments.

161 messages 2011/06/11
[#384368] Re: RFC - One word alias for require_relative — Intransition <transfire@...> 2011/06/11

[#384654] Re: RFC - One word alias for require_relative — Ilias Lazaridis <ilias@...> 2011/06/17

On 11 撫, 20:35, Ilias Lazaridis <il...@lazaridis.com> wrote:

[#384676] Re: RFC - One word alias for require_relative — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2011/06/17

Hi,

[#384633] Re: RFC - One word alias for require_relative — Ilias Lazaridis <ilias@...> 2011/06/17

On 17 撫, 21:17, Gary Wright <gwtm...@mac.com> wrote:

[#384432] commit message conventions — Intransition <transfire@...>

When I write commit messages I add a "team" prefix to the message,

14 messages 2011/06/13
[#384433] Re: commit message conventions — John Feminella <johnf@...> 2011/06/13

I greatly dislike that style, to be frank. My commit messages usually

[#384467] A way to find out when a constant gets defined? — Josh Cheek <josh.cheek@...>

Hi, I'd like to be able to find out when a constant gets defined. I think I

14 messages 2011/06/14

[#384490] Messages to Ruby List/Forum/etc. not arriving equally? — Markus Fischer <markus@...>

Hi,

11 messages 2011/06/15

[#384500] CORE - Inconsistent Handling of Uninitialized Variables — Ilias Lazaridis <ilias@...>

puts "\n== Testin in MAIN Context =="

18 messages 2011/06/15

[#384617] get execution name of program — Chad Perrin <code@...>

Either $0 or __FILE__ will return a filename to give context for how a

13 messages 2011/06/17

[#384634] default config file location — Chad Perrin <code@...>

Is there a "better" way to specify a default config file location than

16 messages 2011/06/17
[#384637] Re: default config file location — "Matthew K. Williams" <matt@...> 2011/06/17

On Sat, 18 Jun 2011, Chad Perrin wrote:

[#384648] celluloid 0.0.3: a concurrent object framework for Ruby — Tony Arcieri <tony.arcieri@...>

Celluloid is a concurrent object framework for Ruby inspired by Erlang

12 messages 2011/06/17

[#384763] MIDASWAD - Matz is Dumb and so We are Dumb — Ilias Lazaridis <ilias@...>

(public draft)

46 messages 2011/06/20
[#384765] Re: MIDASWAD - Matz is Dumb and so We are Dumb — Chad Perrin <code@...> 2011/06/20

Before anyone engages this nonsense . . .

[#384772] Re: MIDASWAD - Matz is Dumb and so We are Dumb — Adam Prescott <adam@...> 2011/06/20

On 20 Jun 2011 20:32, "Chad Perrin" <code@apotheon.net> wrote:

[#384774] Re: MIDASWAD - Matz is Dumb and so We are Dumb — Sam Duncan <sduncan@...> 2011/06/20

Five posts in on this thread, and four of them are the self appointed

[#384779] Re: MIDASWAD - Matz is Dumb and so We are Dumb — David Masover <ninja@...> 2011/06/20

A quick, lazy response, because I shouldn't feed trolls anyway, and I simply

[#384788] Re: MIDASWAD - Matz is Dumb and so We are Dumb — Nikolai Weibull <now@...> 2011/06/21

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 23:52, David Masover <ninja@slaphack.com> wrote:

[#384790] Re: MIDASWAD - Matz is Dumb and so We are Dumb — Adam Prescott <adam@...> 2011/06/21

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Nikolai Weibull <now@bitwi.se> wrote:

[#384792] Re: MIDASWAD - Matz is Dumb and so We are Dumb — Nikolai Weibull <now@...> 2011/06/21

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 13:37, Adam Prescott <adam@aprescott.com> wrote:

[#384800] How to order a hash based on its keys? — Iñaki Baz Castillo <ibc@...>

Hi, I want to order a hash using itds keys:

35 messages 2011/06/21
[#384808] Re: How to order a hash based on its keys? — Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...> 2011/06/21

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Iki Baz Castillo <ibc@aliax.net> wrote:

[#384813] Re: How to order a hash based on its keys? — Iñaki Baz Castillo <ibc@...> 2011/06/21

2011/6/21 Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com>:

[#384814] Re: How to order a hash based on its keys? — Iñaki Baz Castillo <ibc@...> 2011/06/21

2011/6/21 Iñaki Baz Castillo <ibc@aliax.net>:

[#384833] Re: How to order a hash based on its keys? — Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...> 2011/06/22

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 6:34 PM, Iki Baz Castillo <ibc@aliax.net> wrote:

[#384837] Re: How to order a hash based on its keys? — Iñaki Baz Castillo <ibc@...> 2011/06/22

2011/6/22 Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com>:

[#384843] Re: How to order a hash based on its keys? — Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...> 2011/06/22

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Iki Baz Castillo <ibc@aliax.net> wrote:

[#384846] Re: How to order a hash based on its keys? — Iñaki Baz Castillo <ibc@...> 2011/06/22

2011/6/22 Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com>:

[#384847] Re: How to order a hash based on its keys? — Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...> 2011/06/22

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Iki Baz Castillo <ibc@aliax.net> wrote:

[#384849] Re: How to order a hash based on its keys? — Iñaki Baz Castillo <ibc@...> 2011/06/22

2011/6/22 Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com>:

[#384855] Re: How to order a hash based on its keys? — Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...> 2011/06/22

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 4:19 PM, Iki Baz Castillo <ibc@aliax.net> wrote:

[#384819] Gateway Shutting Down — James Gray <james@...>

Rubyists:

12 messages 2011/06/21

[#384873] Explicitly setting compiler to C++ in extconf.rb... — "Darryl L. Pierce" <mcpierce@...>

I'm trying to setup a Ruby gem that bundles the Swig-generated bindings

10 messages 2011/06/23

[#384907] SPDX (and the glazing of ones eyes) — Intransition <transfire@...>

Never ceases to amaze me how complicated "enterprisey" peoples can

17 messages 2011/06/25
[#384909] Re: SPDX (and the glazing of ones eyes) — Phillip Gawlowski <cmdjackryan@...> 2011/06/25

On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Intransition <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:

[#384996] A movie Renamer — Mayank Kohaley <mayank.kohaley@...>

Hello Guys,

20 messages 2011/06/29
[#385007] Re: A movie Renamer — Sam Duncan <sduncan@...> 2011/06/29

Please don't steal movies.

[#385010] Re: A movie Renamer — Chad Perrin <code@...> 2011/06/29

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 06:17:55AM +0900, Sam Duncan wrote:

[#385011] Re: A movie Renamer — Sam Duncan <sduncan@...> 2011/06/29

*sigh*

[#385019] A File Renamer — Mayank Kohaley <mayank.kohaley@...>

I guess this thread has spawned another issue. Let me close this and say I

18 messages 2011/06/30
[#385021] Re: A File Renamer — Jeremy Heiler <jeremyheiler@...> 2011/06/30

On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 1:48 AM, Mayank Kohaley

[#385027] Re: A File Renamer — Johnny Morrice <spoon@...> 2011/06/30

> Is there a pattern to the file names you are working with? The key is

Re: RFC - One word alias for require_relative

From: David Masover <ninja@...>
Date: 2011-06-17 06:49:08 UTC
List: ruby-talk #384601
On Thursday, June 16, 2011 10:58:33 AM Phillip Gawlowski wrote:
> "He is obsessed by the minutiae of syntax and apparently uninterested
> in actually writing programs - he needs to invent some `perfect'
> language before he can do anything, and he's starting with the syntax.
> It seems quite likely that he's just trying to avoid doing anything at
> all by endlessly fiddling with syntax."
> 
> Now *that* sounds familiar, doesn't it?

Indeed it does, and this is probably why I respond to him as much as I do, 
because I started out the same way.

This is going to be a long one. I'll try not to tell this story more than 
once, because it's so long, and borders on actually being offtopic.



I wanted a language which was "fast enough", where "fast enough" meant "at 
least as fast as Java, and better if it can approach C++", which compiled to 
portable bytecode, preferrably bytecode for VMs people are likely to have 
(Java or .NET) but a new VM would be acceptable, could run in 32-bit or 64-bit 
modes, had flexible syntax with minimal verbosity, was extremely dynamic 
semantically but ran as fast as static code, handled unicode well, had good 
multiprocessing primitives (like Erlang)...

The list goes on. And on. And on.

I rejected Ruby at first because it was "too slow", and because I didn't see a 
way it could be much faster, especially because I didn't quite understand the 
difference between symbols and strings. Also, it runs from source, and didn't 
seem to have any good compilers -- at the time, I thought I wanted to do game 
development, and while I wanted my game to be almost automatically portable 
(compile once, run anywhere, so I don't have to convince anyone to let me make 
a Linux version), I also didn't want to actually ship source.

While I suppose I had a good rationale for almost every question I asked, I 
followed a very similar pattern to Ilias. I'd get annoyed when people would 
answer my real question instead of the one I asked, because then we'd be 
arguing about architecture, not realizing how much I had to learn about that. 
I would also wander from group to group -- I'm not sure I ever made an 
appearance on Ruby-Talk directly, but I suspect I hit the IRC channel at some 
point. I was really excited about Perl6 before it really was anything 
resembling an actual language. I tried Squeak, and rejected it because 64-bit 
support was experimental, and it seemed that it might be difficult to port 
software between 32-bit and 64-bit, and even if it would work perfectly 
eventually, the amount of work it was taking them to make a 64-bit Squeak VM 
suggested that either the language was too difficult to port or the community 
was too small to react to these kinds of changes in technology.

Basically, I spent my teenage years like this. I would often be tempted to 
reinvent various wheels, and I still am.

But when it came down to it, when I really had to, I could program. It started 
off really sloppy, and I actually still occasionally support programs I wrote 
as a teenager. Still, I was able to get things done, at first mostly in Perl, 
just little things, avoiding any project big enough that it would warrant The 
Perfect Language.

The turning point was probably my first programming job, at a startup. For the 
first time, I was forced to work with other people, and to actually program 
roughly 8 hours a day, every day. For the first six months or so, it was 
entirely JavaScript, running on HD-DVDs. For the next six months or so, it was 
mostly Ruby -- Blu-Ray won, but we took our Rails backend for the HD-DVD stuff 
and adapted it into a music widget.

The second time through, I saw a lot more of Ruby's brilliance. Plus, the 
performance had improved significantly, to the point where it was still common 
knowledge that "Ruby is Slow", but I could no longer see any major design 
decisions which made Ruby _pointlessly_ slow -- any decisions that would tend 
to make implementations slow weren't just carelessness, they were deliberate 
tradeoffs between performance and programmer productivity.

I had to learn, the hard way, that there is no "perfect" language. While I can 
think of some things I wish some language did that no languages do yet, I no 
longer believe that there could ever be a language which is semantically 
"better" than all other languages in all ways. One thing many people on this 
list will be familiar with is Ruby vs JavaScript -- and I have to say, there 
are tons of things I miss about each in the other, and some of them are 
mutually exclusive. I like that every interaction with an object in Ruby is 
actually sending it a message (a method call, usually), but that's 
incompatible with JavaScript's idea that objects are just hashes of methods 
and values.

That, and I actually learned to program.

The biggest change in my thinking now is that, when I was a teenager asking 
the kind of questions Ilias does, I wasn't speaking from experience where a 
given construct actually bothered me. It just bothered me from some idealistic 
standpoint which had no connection to any program I have ever or will ever 
write. These days, when I complain that (for example) autoload didn't actually 
call the system require, I actually do have a good reason for wanting to 
intercept the behavior of autoload.

That is, I've gone from being an idealistic, dogmatic, theoretical programmer 
to being an actual, practicing, empirical programmer. It just took me five or 
ten years, and I probably made some enemies along the way.



So as rude and arrogant as he is, and as little as he deserves (or wants) my 
pity, it's kind of painful for me to see Ilias making the exact same mistakes 
I did, and then grew out of -- and frustrating when he refuses to hear a word 
of it.

Hopefully this is useful, or at least interesting. Thanks for your patience, 
whoever's actually read this far. At the very least, now you see why it's so 
hard for me to actually not feed this troll.

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