[#98950] Strange behaviour of Strings in Range — Michael Neumann <mneumann@...>

Hi,

24 messages 2004/05/01

[#98975] Why no Proc##[]=() ? Why no Proc##replace() ? — Jean-Hugues ROBERT <jean_hugues_robert@...>

Hi,

15 messages 2004/05/01
[#98983] Re: Why no Proc##[]=() ? Why no Proc##replace() ? — Dan Doel <djd15@...> 2004/05/01

I'm not sure what your proposal means.

[#98997] Re: Why no Proc##[]=() ? Why no Proc##replace() ? — Jean-Hugues ROBERT <jean_hugues_robert@...> 2004/05/02

About class Proc; def []=(*args); self[*args] end end and the value of

[#98980] Ruby Newbie (ooh, that rhymes!) - When do I use do/end, when {}? — glenn_m_smith@... (Glenn)

Hello all

23 messages 2004/05/01

[#99105] What do you use Ruby for? — glenn_m_smith@... (Glenn)

OK, the more I read about Ruby (currently on page 29 of the FAQ,

25 messages 2004/05/03

[#99119] YAML vs. Marshal — dejaspam@... (Bill Atkins)

Is there any reason to use Marshal instead of YAML? Is there anything

21 messages 2004/05/03
[#99121] Re: YAML vs. Marshal — Joel VanderWerf <vjoel@...> 2004/05/03

Bill Atkins wrote:

[#99191] Re: YAML vs. Marshal — why the lucky stiff <ruby-talk@...> 2004/05/04

Joel VanderWerf wrote:

[#99192] Re: YAML vs. Marshal — Hal Fulton <hal9000@...> 2004/05/04

why the lucky stiff wrote:

[#99204] What so special about PostgreSQL and other RDBMS? — "Sarah Tanembaum" <sarah.tanembaum@...>

Beside its an opensource and supported by community, what's the fundamental

96 messages 2004/05/04

[#99270] Is Ruby Top 1 of Programming Languages that are Loved? — "Park Heesob" <phasis68@...>

Hi all,

66 messages 2004/05/05
[#99333] Re: [OT]Is Ruby Top 1 of Programming Languages that are Loved? — ptkwt@... (Phil Tomson) 2004/05/06

In article <83173408.0405051506.5db85fe6@posting.google.com>,

[#99358] Re: [OT]Is Ruby Top 1 of Programming Languages that are Loved? — Dick Davies <rasputnik@...> 2004/05/06

* Phil Tomson <ptkwt@aracnet.com> [0554 02:54]:

[#99378] Re: [OT]Is Ruby Top 1 of Programming Languages that are Loved? — "Ara.T.Howard" <ahoward@...> 2004/05/06

On Thu, 6 May 2004, Dick Davies wrote:

[#99326] RAA error - can't dup NilClass — Simon Strandgaard <neoneye@...>

When I try to enter my project page

15 messages 2004/05/06
[#99327] Re: RAA error - can't dup NilClass — "NAKAMURA, Hiroshi" <nahi@...> 2004/05/06

Hi,

[#99328] Re: RAA error - can't dup NilClass — "NAKAMURA, Hiroshi" <nahi@...> 2004/05/06

Hi, again,

[#99332] miniruby.exe & statically linked ruby.exe (Windows) — ptkwt@... (Phil Tomson)

I've been trying to build a statically linked ruby.exe on windows using

12 messages 2004/05/06

[#99399] DRb Connection Closed Error?!?!?!? — "Ken Hilton" <kenosis@...>

Greetings,

14 messages 2004/05/06

[#99438] What is Borges? — dejaspam@... (Bill Atkins)

Can someone please explain to me what Borges does? Its home page

41 messages 2004/05/07
[#99482] Re: What is Borges? — Dick Davies <rasputnik@...> 2004/05/07

* Bill Atkins <dejaspam@batkins.com> [0534 01:34]:

[#99530] Re: What is Borges? — Julian Fitzell <julian@...4.com> 2004/05/07

Dick Davies wrote:

[#99534] Re: What is Borges? — Carl Youngblood <carl@...> 2004/05/07

[#99527] Ruby Installer for Windows: use of Win32OLE bug causes crash — Jos Backus <jos@...>

This is with the latest Ruby Installer for Windows, 181-13-rc2.

11 messages 2004/05/07

[#99583] Ruby Installer for Windows 1.8.1-13 final — "Curt Hibbs" <curt@...>

The Ruby Installer 1.8.1-13 (final) for Windows has been released and

62 messages 2004/05/08
[#99643] Why Ruby? -- A Resource for Promoting Ruby — "Curt Hibbs" <curt@...> 2004/05/09

I'm pleased to announce the kickoff of RubyForge project called "Why Ruby?"

[#104934] Ruby Installer for Windows 1.8.2-14 Release Candidate — "Curt Hibbs" <curt@...> 2004/06/30

I have uploaded a release candidate for Ruby Installer that was built using

[#104952] **RC2** Ruby Installer for Windows 1.8.2-14 Release Candidate — "Curt Hibbs" <curt@...> 2004/07/01

The original release candidate that I posted earlier today did not include

[#105519] Re: [ANN] **RC2** Ruby Installer for Windows 1.8.2-14 Release Candidate — Lothar Scholz <mailinglists@...> 2004/07/07

Hello Curt,

[#105546] Re: [ANN] **RC2** Ruby Installer for Windows 1.8.2-14 Release Candidate — Hidetoshi NAGAI <nagai@...> 2004/07/08

Hi,

[#105550] Re: [ANN] **RC2** Ruby Installer for Windows 1.8.2-14 Release Candidate — nobu.nokada@... 2004/07/08

Hi,

[#99597] How to get the last 5 elements of an array? — Gavin Sinclair <gsinclair@...>

Hi,

20 messages 2004/05/08

[#99680] rubygarden homepage hacks — Simon Strandgaard <neoneye@...>

On daily basis the homepage at rubygarden is being edited.

19 messages 2004/05/09

[#99734] in search of a compelling reason to use ruby.... — Ryan Paul <segphault@...>

i'm a python programmer, and I have recently been hearing a lot about

28 messages 2004/05/10

[#99764] safe eval? — "Ara.T.Howard" <Ara.T.Howard@...>

20 messages 2004/05/10
[#99773] Re: safe eval? — Florian Gross <flgr@...> 2004/05/10

Ara.T.Howard wrote:

[#99834] Re: safe eval? — ts <decoux@...> 2004/05/11

>>>>> "F" == Florian Gross <flgr@ccan.de> writes:

[#99854] Proposal: Object#send(nil) -> self — Gavin Sinclair <gsinclair@...>

A quick one. I see some sense in Object#send accepting 'nil' as the

21 messages 2004/05/11

[#99879] Strange regexp behaviour in gsub — Kristof Bastiaensen <kristof@...>

Hi,

15 messages 2004/05/11

[#99945] Recommendations (Ruby making my head swim) — Mike Rhodes <rhodes553@...>

I recently bought "Programming Ruby" and set out to learn the language

13 messages 2004/05/12

[#99966] Major Addition Bug? — "Sean O'Dell" <sean@...>

Doing this:

57 messages 2004/05/12
[#99967] Re: Major Addition Bug? — ts <decoux@...> 2004/05/12

>>>>> "S" == Sean O'Dell <sean@celsoft.com> writes:

[#99970] Re: Major Addition Bug? — "Sean O'Dell" <sean@...> 2004/05/12

On Wednesday 12 May 2004 09:53, ts wrote:

[#100032] are there any ruby IDEs? — Ryan Paul <segphault@...>

I use vim most of the time, but i'm curious if there are any

35 messages 2004/05/12

[#100093] How to make combinations of an array to produce all possible expressions? — Erik Terpstra <erik@...>

I have an array 'conds', which contains some sub-expressions for an

11 messages 2004/05/13

[#100136] Ruby's Best -- Please Help — "Curt Hibbs" <curt@...>

On the "Why Ruby?" project wiki (http://whyruby.rubyforge.org/), I am trying

23 messages 2004/05/13
[#100284] Please revisit Ruby's Best and vote for additions — "Curt Hibbs" <curt@...> 2004/05/14

If you were an early visitor to:

[#100137] First Presentation Posted to Why Ruby! — "Curt Hibbs" <curt@...>

Assaph Mehr just posted the first presentation to Why Ruby

22 messages 2004/05/13
[#100172] Presenting a more unified front (Ruby webring?) — ptkwt@... (Phil Tomson) 2004/05/13

In article <EAENKKNOJPMNCDMLDOMLKEHHEFAA.curt@hibbs.com>,

[#100182] C++ Exception compatibility idea — Asfand Yar Qazi <im_not_giving_it_here@..._hate_spam.com>

Hi,

26 messages 2004/05/13
[#100206] Rite implementation in C++? (Objective C?) — ptkwt@... (Phil Tomson) 2004/05/13

In article <40A3E539.2010204@hypermetrics.com>,

[#100193] subclasses of string as hash keys — Matthias Georgi <matti_g@...>

15 messages 2004/05/13

[#100273] Regexp Error? — "Robert Klemme" <bob.news@...>

What's wrong here?

16 messages 2004/05/14

[#100295] Re: Regexp Error? — Michael Campbell <michael_s_campbell@...>

ts wrote:

15 messages 2004/05/14

[#100325] Re: Please revisit Ruby's Best and vote for additions — "Curt Hibbs" <curt@...>

James Britt wrote:

12 messages 2004/05/14

[#100395] Need Help Selecting a GUI — dejaspam@... (Bill Atkins)

As anyone can tell by looking at the topics of my recent posts, I'm

18 messages 2004/05/15

[#100461] Ruby on Rails — Matt Lawrence <matt@...>

Very neat presentation, it kept me up way too late last night watching it.

24 messages 2004/05/16

[#100511] How to duck type? - the psychology of static typing in Ruby — Tim Bates <tim@...>

Hi all,

83 messages 2004/05/17
[#100525] Re: How to duck type? - the psychology of static typing in Ruby — "SER" <ser@...> 2004/05/17

Broken record time:

[#100791] Re: How to duck type? - the psychology of static typing in Ruby — Marek Janukowicz <childNOSPAM@...17.ds.pwr.wroc.pl> 2004/05/19

On Thu, 20 May 2004 03:43:22 +0900, Dave Thomas wrote:

[#100613] FoX: removing widgets — Yuri Leikind <y.leikind@...>

Hello all,

16 messages 2004/05/18
[#100670] Re: FoX: removing widgets — Lyle Johnson <lyle@...> 2004/05/18

Yuri Leikind wrote:

[#100629] Newbie installation problem: libraries? — Paul Emmons <pemmons@...>

I have recently installed ruby-1.8.1 on my Mandrake Linux system.

11 messages 2004/05/18

[#100649] Windows desktop app w/ simple db; how? — "Kirk Haines" <khaines@...>

Imagine that you had a very simple web based application. It queries some

12 messages 2004/05/18

[#100653] Zero is true ... whoda thunk? — "Richard Lionheart" <NoOne@...>

Hi,

29 messages 2004/05/18
[#100655] Re: Zero is true ... whoda thunk? — Mark Sparshatt <msparshatt@...> 2004/05/18

Richard Lionheart wrote:

[#100682] Re: Zero is true ... whoda thunk? — Chris Pine <cpine@...> 2004/05/19

On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:34:54 +0900, Mark Sparshatt wrote:

[#100691] Re: Zero is true ... whoda thunk? — David Naseby <david.naseby@...>

>-----Original Message-----

14 messages 2004/05/19

[#100721] irb or xterm crash with UTF-8 — Simon Strandgaard <neoneye@...>

server> irb

15 messages 2004/05/19

[#100839] Where to download FXRuby library; where to put it; RUBYLIB, RUBYPATH env. vars — "Richard Lionheart" <NoOne@...>

Hi,

14 messages 2004/05/20

[#100862] Ruby's builtin Datastructures — Brian Schroeder <spam0504@...>

Hello all,

13 messages 2004/05/20

[#101071] Concerning version numbers... — Hal Fulton <hal9000@...>

A few people in recent weeks have been bemoaning the fact that software

15 messages 2004/05/22

[#101110] Ruby for educational purposes and localization — Laurent Julliard <laurent__no__@__spam__moldus.org>

All,

10 messages 2004/05/23

[#101165] make faster Richards benchmark — dlissett0@... (Duncan Lissett)

I'd appreciate any suggestions on how to make a faster Ruby

15 messages 2004/05/24

[#101226] Concerning package names — djberg96@... (Daniel Berger)

All,

13 messages 2004/05/24

[#101292] Numeric#of — "Ara.T.Howard" <ahoward@...>

53 messages 2004/05/25

[#101329] separating ruby-talk from comp.lang.ruby? — David Alan Black <dblack@...>

Hi --

65 messages 2004/05/25
[#101388] Re: separating ruby-talk from comp.lang.ruby? — ptkwt@... (Phil Tomson) 2004/05/25

In article <m3brkcda7g.fsf@wobblini.net>,

[#101391] Re: separating ruby-talk from comp.lang.ruby? — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2004/05/25

Hi --

[#101360] ruby-dev summary 23459-23562 — Minero Aoki <aamine@...>

Hi all,

30 messages 2004/05/25
[#101395] Re: ruby-dev summary 23459-23562 — Florian Gross <flgr@...> 2004/05/25

Minero Aoki wrote:

[#101369] defining condititions — Florian Weber <csshsh@...>

hi!

18 messages 2004/05/25

[#101522] WEBrick and FastCGI response — Jim Freeze <jim@...>

Reply-To:

15 messages 2004/05/27

[#101560] Re: separating ruby-talk from comp.lang.ruby? — "Mills Thomas (app1tam)" <app1tam@...>

Here, here, hear, hear. No NNTP here.

41 messages 2004/05/27
[#101565] Re: separating ruby-talk from comp.lang.ruby? — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2004/05/27

Hi --

[#101569] Re: separating ruby-talk from comp.lang.ruby? — Dave Thomas <dave@...> 2004/05/27

[#101571] Re: separating ruby-talk from comp.lang.ruby? — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2004/05/27

Hi --

[#101616] Re: separating ruby-talk from comp.lang.ruby? — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2004/05/28

Hi --

[#101686] Re: separating ruby-talk from comp.lang.ruby? — Dave Thomas <dave@...> 2004/05/28

[#101890] Re: separating ruby-talk from comp.lang.ruby? — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2004/05/31

Sorry everyone, testing again.... small meaningless tweak to

[#101674] Andreas' practical language comparison — "Georgy" <no.mail@...>

Hi all!

13 messages 2004/05/28

[#101745] Test::Unit: assert_follows_spec() (or something like that) — David Garamond <lists@...6.isreserved.com>

For deterministic functions/methods, the same set of inputs should

20 messages 2004/05/29

[#101823] gsub!, replace with \' — Patrick Gundlach <clr1.10.randomuser@...>

Dear Ruby-hackers,

14 messages 2004/05/30

[#101830] Behavior of application changes when adding non-relevant puts — felix.nawothnig@... (Felix Nawothnig)

Hi.

12 messages 2004/05/30

[#101853] mysql-ruby — Paul Vudmaska <paul@...>

%$@#%$ i know i've abused this list with more questions than answers but

14 messages 2004/05/31

[#101855] elegant way to say "try this thing, one at a time, until condition is met" — David Garamond <lists@...6.isreserved.com>

Example: I need to unmount /usr and /usr2, but currently I can't because

23 messages 2004/05/31

[#101899] RMagick available on Windows — Tim Hunter <cyclists@...>

Thanks to Kaspar Schiess, RMagick for Windows is now available at

13 messages 2004/05/31

Re: Why no Proc##[]=() ? Why no Proc##replace() ?

From: Jean-Hugues ROBERT <jean_hugues_robert@...>
Date: 2004-05-03 11:54:38 UTC
List: ruby-talk #99084
About hypothetical class Proc; def []=(*args) self[*args] end end

At 07:21 03/05/2004 +0900, you wrote:
>I understand the concept of an lvalue in assignment. I just don't think it
>really makes sense for proc calling.

Sometimes, a Proc is sometimes like an anonymous method, right ?
If assignment does not make sense for proc p,
then is does not make sense for method m.
then m.[]=( 1, x) does not make any more sense than p.[]=( 1, x)
Then m[1] = x does not make sense either
Then it is an embarrassing situation because a[1] = x does not make sense...
So, it has to make sense for method, and it should make sense for proc too.
Am I missing something ?

>[]= is usually used for objects that have multiple
>accessible elements based on some index, like arrays and hashes. However,
>Proc objects don't have such indexable values. [] is an idiom for calling the
>Proc.  Procs are like functions in Ruby, and []= would be like assigning to
>the result of the function, which is sort of like doing something like:
>   1 = a
>At least to my mind.  It feels like treating assignment as an operation on
>objects, rather than an operation on variables (and it's the latter, not the
>former in Ruby).

That is true, it feels like treating assignment as an operation on object.
But it not true that Ruby treats assignment as an operation on variables,
it does so only for scalar object. For non scalars, arrays, hash, etc,
assignment is by method call (.[]=() on the non scalar object).

This is not symetric. Ruby could always treat assignment as an operation
on an object. This requires: a Lvalue class and the ability to redefine
the assignment operator. As a result a variable could easily be an instance
of Lvalue and we would get closer to the motto "Everything is an object in
Ruby". I am currently prototyping such a Lvalue class.

For speed reason, the actual Lvalue instance could be created only when
the user needs it, say: lvalue = ref a.

>   Would you also argue that
>   p = lambda {...}
>   p.call = a, b, c should be well defined?

If there was a Lvalue class, and if p was to return a lvalue, then I guess
p.call = a, b, c
would be equivalent to
lvalue = a, b, c
which is equivalent to
lvalue = a.
I would then expect the lvalue to be assigned a. Either by calling lvalue.=(a)
or directly by the interpretor.

But there is no Lvalue class today. The closer is a user defined Pointer class:
p = lambda { ... return an instance of Pointer }
p.call()[]= a, b, c
eqv p.call().[]=(a)

As you can see, with a Pointer, you have to dereference yourself using [],
whereas with a Lvalue you would not.

> > Now, what is Proc#replace() useful for ?
> > You can imagine multiple cases where the Proc itself wants to change its
> > own definition. For example, imagine a Proc that caches its result:
> > r = proc {
> >    x = long_method
> >    self.replace { x }
> >    x
> > }

I made 2 mistakes, self is not the Proc object, x gets scoped out.
r.replace { x } would work, but then r = proc { x } is more obvious.
I don't know how to get the current Proc object from the proc's body.
Any clue ?

> > r.call() # long_method called
> > r.call() # cached result
> >
> > There are other ways to do this of course, without replace:
> >    p = proc { @x ||= long_method }
> > or (needed if result can be nil)
> >    p = proc { @x = long_method unless defined? @x; @x }

Nota: @x is actually an instance variable of the object that
defined the proc. I tought it was an instance variable of the
Proc object itself, but I was wrong. Sorry about that.

>These two work, and they don't use instance variables (which, as someone else
>pointed out, aren't actually the instance variables of the Proc):
>
>   x = nil
>   p = lambda { x ||= long_method }
>
>   b = true
>   r = lambda { if b then b = false; x = long_method else x end }

True. Now they use a local variable of the method instead of
an instance variable of the object.

>And I don't see why this wouldn't work in this situation:
>
>   x = long_method
>   p = lambda { x }

Well, in this case you call long_method even if the proc is never called.
That was not the purpose of the example. The example is a cache where
long_method is call at most once, but only if needed (cached & lazy !).

> > Now, which method is more efficient ?
>
>The replace method might be more efficient if you call the Proc many times,
>but in the short term, I don't think either one will be wildly more efficient
>than the other. In fact, I'd wager that modifying the object would require
>more resources than doing a few boolean tests.

I suspect it makes sense that a value is cached precisely when it is
often needed. With replace() the overhead of replace() decreases as
you need the cached value more and more, at some point it becomes
negligeable.

>Also, incidentally, in your example it'd have to be r.replace { x }, as self
>in the block is not the Proc.

True. I still need to figure how to get the current proc object when
executing the block's body.

>I guess self-modifying code could be a good thing, but it seems like overkill
>for caching the result of a function. :)

That's a matter of style I guess. Besides, that was just a short convenient 
example
(slightly broken) to show what Proc#replace() would do.

>Anyhow, that's all I can think of to say at the moment, so I'll cut this off.

Thanks for the feedback.

>Cheers.
>- Dan

Yours,

Jean-Hugues



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