ruby-core

Hi guys, sorry that I'm posting into the core mailinglist, but in the talk mailinglist no one could'nt / didnt't want to give me some answers about some (basic ? ) ruby core questions.

6 messages 2007/11/26

[#13786] Re: C-Core-Questions — <saladin.mundi@...> 2007/11/26

I think I have explained it too confusing

[#13783] Re: C-Core-Questions — Wolfgang Nádasi-Donner <ed.odanow@...> 2007/11/26

saladin.mundi@gmx.de schrieb:

[#13784] Re: C-Core-Questions — <saladin.mundi@...> 2007/11/26

Yes, I know that some information about C is written in the PickAxe.

[#13785] Re: C-Core-Questions — ts <decoux@...> 2007/11/26

>>>>> "s" == <saladin.mundi@gmx.de> writes:

[#13791] Re: C-Core-Questions — Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@...> 2007/11/27

[#13782] gem_prelude.rb raises exception — "Yusuke ENDOH" <mame@...>

Hi,

3 messages 2007/11/26

[#13793] Re: gem_prelude.rb raises exception — Richard Kilmer <rich@...> 2007/11/27

[#13826] Re: gem_prelude.rb raises exception — "Yusuke ENDOH" <mame@...> 2007/11/29

> I indeed added that check to skip unless dash and also wrapped the

[#13787] Syntax error when using comment between two lines in new method chain syntax — Wolfgang Nádasi-Donner <ed.odanow@...>

Hi!

3 messages 2007/11/26

[#13788] Re: Syntax error when using comment between two lines in new method chain syntax — Wolfgang Nádasi-Donner <ed.odanow@...> 2007/11/26

Wolfgang N叩dasi-Donner schrieb:

[#13790] Re: Syntax error when using comment between two lines in new method chain syntax — murphy <murphy@...> 2007/11/26

Wolfgang N叩dasi-Donner wrote:

[#13792] Anyone tried -r debug on OSX? — Dave Thomas <dave@...>

It hangs for me here. I have to kill -9 to stop it.

8 messages 2007/11/27

[#13828] Re: Anyone tried -r debug on OSX? — murphy <murphy@...> 2007/11/29

Dave Thomas wrote:

[#13831] Re: Anyone tried -r debug on OSX? — murphy <murphy@...> 2007/11/30

murphy wrote:

[#13832] Re: Anyone tried -r debug on OSX? — Dave Thomas <dave@...> 2007/11/30

[#13836] Re: Anyone tried -r debug on OSX? — "Rick DeNatale" <rick.denatale@...> 2007/11/30

On Nov 29, 2007 9:34 PM, Dave Thomas <dave@pragprog.com> wrote:

[#13837] Re: Anyone tried -r debug on OSX? — Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@...> 2007/11/30

[#13829] Re: Anyone tried -r debug on OSX? — Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@...> 2007/11/30

[#13830] Re: Anyone tried -r debug on OSX? — "Laurent Sansonetti" <laurent.sansonetti@...> 2007/11/30

On Nov 27, 2007 2:27 AM, Dave Thomas <dave@pragprog.com> wrote:

[#13796] autoload reminder — Trans <transfire@...>

Just want to remind core team that #autoload does not use the normal

3 messages 2007/11/27

[#13797] Re: autoload reminder — "Felix Geller" <fgeller@...> 2007/11/27

On 11/27/07, Trans <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:

[#13827] Re: autoload reminder — Trans <transfire@...> 2007/11/29

[#13803] Hash#eql? and Hash#== in trunk — Gary Wright <gwtmp01@...>

In Ruby 1.8, Hash#== uses #== to compare values:

2 messages 2007/11/28

[#13823] Re: Hash#eql? and Hash#== in trunk — Yukihiro Matsumoto <matz@...> 2007/11/29

Hi,

[#13805] Socket.gethostbyname and Reverse Lookups: A Strange and Terrible Saga — "Bill Kelly" <billk@...>

(with apologies to Hunter Thompson ;)

4 messages 2007/11/28

[#13806] Re: Socket.gethostbyname and Reverse Lookups: A Strange and Terrible Saga — Gary Wright <gwtmp01@...> 2007/11/28

[#13807] Re: Socket.gethostbyname and Reverse Lookups: A Strange and Terrible Saga — "Bill Kelly" <billk@...> 2007/11/28

[#14193] Re: Socket.gethostbyname and Reverse Lookups: A Strange and Terrible Saga — "Roger Pack" <rogerpack2005@...> 2007/12/21

> Note, I'm not altogether surprised it worked for you on OS X,

[#13814] -v affects parse tree, causes tests to fail in ParseTree — Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@...>

The problem is that the void_expr macro is used in void_stmts and

5 messages 2007/11/28

[#13815] Re: -v affects parse tree, causes tests to fail in ParseTree — Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@...> 2007/11/28

[#13822] Re: -v affects parse tree, causes tests to fail in ParseTree — Nobuyoshi Nakada <nobu@...> 2007/11/29

Hi,

[#13816] Re: -v affects parse tree, causes tests to fail in ParseTree — Charles Oliver Nutter <charles.nutter@...> 2007/11/28

Ryan Davis wrote:

[#13817] Re: -v affects parse tree, causes tests to fail in ParseTree — Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@...> 2007/11/29

[#13818] Dear Matz, — Steven Lumos <steven@...>

3 messages 2007/11/29

[#13819] Re: Dear Matz, — andrew taylor <aktxyz@...> 2007/11/29

[#13820] Re: Dear Matz, — Charles Oliver Nutter <charles.nutter@...> 2007/11/29

Steven Lumos wrote:

[#13824] Inhering from Proc in 1.9? — "Florian Frank" <flori@...>

Hi,

2 messages 2007/11/29

[#13825] Re: Inhering from Proc in 1.9? — SASADA Koichi <ko1@...> 2007/11/29

Hi,

[#13833] Bug in Signal Handling — James Edward Gray II <james@...>

I'm pretty sure we have found a bug in Ruby while working on TextMate.

3 messages 2007/11/30

[#13841] Re: Bug in Signal Handling — Joel VanderWerf <vjoel@...> 2007/12/01

James Edward Gray II wrote:

[#13929] Re: Bug in Signal Handling — James Edward Gray II <james@...> 2007/12/07

On Nov 30, 2007, at 11:47 PM, Joel VanderWerf wrote:

[#13834] warn() vs. puts() — James Edward Gray II <james@...>

Why isn't warn() as smart as puts()?

2 messages 2007/11/30

[#13838] Re: warn() vs. puts() — Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@...> 2007/11/30

[#13835] "initialize" method in 1.9 Thread gone? — "B. Tommy Jensen" <btoj@...>

Hi,

3 messages 2007/11/30

[#13839] Re: "initialize" method in 1.9 Thread gone? — "Florian Frank" <flori@...> 2007/11/30

B. Tommy Jensen wrote:

[#13840] Re: "initialize" method in 1.9 Thread gone? — Nobuyoshi Nakada <nobu@...> 2007/11/30

Hi,

Re: Proposal of a new operator for Method and Proc

From: Jordi <mumismo@...>

Date: 2007-11-08 16:01:12 UTC

List: ruby-core #13300

On Nov 8, 2007 10:45 PM, Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/8/07, Jordi <mumismo@gmail.com> wrote:
> > == The search for events ==
> >
> > First, the classes below are not tested and I'm just a beginner, some
> > errors are took for granted. Won't affect my discourse. I wanted to
> > implement a timer, looking in google the first thing you get is
> > something like this:
> >
> > class Timer
> >
> >  def start (timeout)
> >    th = Thread.new do
> >      loop do
> >        # work done by the timer
> >        sleep(timeout)
> >      end
> >    end
> >  end
> > end
> >
> > Let's suppose I'm only using the timer to implement some kind of counter.
> > Cool, BUT I would like that the work of the timer be only time
> > related! and the counter be in its relevant class.
> > Also I may want to reuse this class.
> >
> >
> > So I thought about something like this
> >
> > class Timer
> >
> >  def initialize (*arguments)
> >    connections=[]
> >    @arguments=arguments
> >  end
> >  def register_work ( pointer)
> >    connections += pointer
> >  end
> >  def deregister_work (pointer)
> >    connections -= pointer
> >  end
> >  def deregister_all
> >    connections =[]
> >  end
> >  def list
> >    connections.each { |l| puts "#{l}" }
> >  end
> >
> >  def start (timeout)
> >    th = Thread.new do
> >      loop do
> >        # work done by the timer
> >        connections.each { |l| l.call(*@arguments) }
> >        sleep (timeout)
> >      end
> >    end
> >  end
> >
> > end
> >
> > I wrote pointer, I meant for instance Counter.count()
> >
> > This class is much more general and powerful.
> > The work is done in the relevant classes and not inside the timer
> > Also, we can register as many connected classes as we want.
> >
> >
> > Seeing that this is Good (tm) I thought about how can I make any class use this.
> > Of course I can make a class with the register, deregister and call
> > thing and mixin it.
> >
> > But Wouldn't be could that these encapsulated connections are
> > supported natively by ruby?
> >
> > About benefits of this scheme:
> > http://doc.trolltech.com/4.3/signalsandslots.html
> >
> > About a comparison of implementations (going straight to the
> > comparison table is better):
> > http://scottcollins.net/articles/a-deeper-look-at-signals-and-slots.html
> >
> >
> > ==The cool stuff ==
> >
> > I thought about how to get this feature implemented without polluting
> > the most basic class of Ruby.
> > I think that the most powerful and less polluting way is adding a new
> > operator to Method and Proc.
> >
> >
> > Example.
> > I have a class Page, a class Timer and a class Counter.  The Page
> > instance is the parent of both instances of Timer and Counter.
> >
> > class Page
> >
> >  def initialize
> >    counter = Counter.new
> >    t=Timer.new
> >
> >    t.timeout -> counter.update
> >    counter.overrun -> show_error
> >
> >  end
> >
> > end
> >
>
> > Some notes:
> > We connect the timeout of the timer with the update of the counter.
> > We connect the overrun of the counter with an error show by the page.
> > The Timer whenever it timeouts, it just ... call to its .timeout() method.
> >
> > Note that the Timer class does not need to be modified to make
> > something new (update the counter) . It is a real isolated software
> > component.
> > The same goes to the counter, it overruns and let the world know about
> > it. That is its job. Don't need to know about the Page having and
> > error.
> >
> > I  proposed "->" in my ignorance. It may appear as a redirect rather
> > than "something you add". Surely something else is better.
> >
> >
> >
> > With this scheme, we have a general and easy , cool, even rubyish way
> > to connect to events and to connect code arbitrarily to any class
> > method!
> > For instance, we need to make some clean up each time we call to
> > File.close() (whatever reason)
> > Previous simple way
> >
> > def close (file)
> >  file.close
> >  @filesOpened -= 1
> > end
> >
> > new way (in the construstor):
> >
> > file.close -> {  @filesOpened -= 1 }
> >
> > {  @filesOpened -= 1 } will become a Proc called when file.close
> > finish. See that the implementation in C should be efficient (a list
> > of pointers to functions)
> >
> > Now suppose that you load a new plugin that also need to do some
> > cleanup when the file open by the main class is closed. When loaded it
> > will add itself whatever it needs for itself.
> >
> >
> > i feel my examples are not very good... sorry.
> >
> >
> > == Summary ==
> >
> > This addition to the language isolates software components and creates
> > a new very powerful construction at a very low cost.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jordi Polo　(ジョルデイ　ポロ）
> > 奈良先端科学技術大学院大学 情報科学研究科
> > 自然言語処理学講座 D1
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com * http://www.halostatue.ca/
>                * austin@halostatue.ca * http://www.halostatue.ca/feed/
>                * austin@zieglers.ca
>
>
>
>
> On 11/8/07, Jordi <mumismo@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 8, 2007 7:03 PM, Gonzalo Garramuño <ggarra@advancedsl.com.ar> wrote:
> > > Jordi wrote:
> > > >
> > > > class Page
> > > >
> > > >  def initialize
> > > >    counter = Counter.new
> > > >    t=Timer.new
> > > >
> > > >    t.timeout -> counter.update
> > > >    counter.overrun -> show_error
> > > >
> > > >  end
> > > >
> > > > end
> > > >
> > >
> > > You probably want to learn more about ruby blocks, procs and variable
> > > scopes.  Here's a way to do what you want in a ruby way.
> > >
> > > class Timer
> > >     def callback(proc = nil, &block)
> > >         @proc = proc || block
> > >     end
> > >
> > > # protected  # but we make it public for this test
> > >     def timeout
> > >         @proc.call if @proc
> > >     end
> > > end
> > >
> > > class Page
> > >    def show_error
> > >    end
> > >
> > >    def initialize
> > >      @counter = 0
> > >      t = Timer.new
> > >
> > >      t.callback        { @counter += 1  }
> > >      t.timeout
> > >
> > >      # or...
> > >      t.callback( method(:show_error) )
> > >      t.timeout
> > >    end
> > > end
> > >
> > > You also probably want to discuss this sort of stuff in ruby-talk until
> > > you are more familiar with ruby.
> > >
> >
> >
> > As I said I'm not familiar with the syntaxis (my classes may have
> > errors) but I am do familiar with the semantics (I think I pretty
> > understand "rubyism").
> >
> > Your class have a number of problems comparing with my solution. It is
> > similar to the second solution I gave.
> >
> > - You must add that special method callback everytime.  Of course you
> > can make an special class for that and use mixins ...
> > - You can only register one "signal" . My solution can have an
> > arbitrary number.
> > - You are adding a new method to every class
> >
> >
> > I would like to extend my proposal to disconnection:
> >
> > t.timeout -> counter.update  to connect
> > I can't imagine a cool operator to mean disconnect (x is graphically
> > perfect though)
> >
> >
> > An alternative proposal, more Qt-like (see reference links in the
> > first email) and more verbose:
> >
> > Method or Proc.connect (Method or Proc)
> > Method or Proc.disconnect (Method or Proc)
> >
> > Or a connect and disconnect in Object but I would really won't like to
> > pollute it (Object has "send" method though, it is much like half of
> > what I need for the connection).
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com * http://www.halostatue.ca/
>                * austin@halostatue.ca * http://www.halostatue.ca/feed/
>                * austin@zieglers.ca
>
>
> On 11/8/07, Jordi <mumismo@gmail.com> wrote:
> > As I said I'm not familiar with the syntaxis (my classes may have
> > errors) but I am do familiar with the semantics (I think I pretty
> > understand "rubyism").
>
> Given your comments, I'm not sure that this is as clear as you think. As
> an example, you use "t.timeout" to represent the timeout of the timer,
> but there's nothing defined for this. "t.timeout" means sending the
> #timeout message to object "t"; it doesn't mean anything to do with some
> timeout (or @timeout) variable.

I implied more things that I explained, sorry. I try to clarify:

timeout is a member of the class Timer
t is an instance of that class

Adding this mechanism to both Method and Proc will be great. For
instance a global Proc could be used in a application for a global
sincronization or a global plugin registration.

Anyway, adding a new method "connect" and "disconnect" may be clearer.
I didn't want to add new methods to the base classes though.

In fact, we have send ("method_name")  (IMHO should be named receive),
it is one third of the equation, the receiving, I only want to add the
"emit" and the "connect". emit can be implied. So connect only, trying
to minimize it, give me  -> . I may minimize too much :P



> > Your class have a number of problems comparing with my solution. It is
> > similar to the second solution I gave.
> >
> > - You must add that special method callback everytime. Of course you
> >   can make an special class for that and use mixins ...
>
> You can make a mixin that has such registrations, but you then have to
> indicate how signals will be raised.
>
just calling the methods.

> > - You can only register one "signal" . My solution can have an
> >       arbitrary number.
>
> Implementation detail. You don't have to have a single callback
> function; you can use a callback function array.

Also think that we have to register for each signal of the calling
Object. But I agree, it is trivial to implement it.


>
> > - You are adding a new method to every class
>
> Less of a problem than you think.
>
> Your proposal doesn't actually suggest how these things would *work* --
> how do you implement the slots and signals in general? You need to look
> at this a bit deeper and see that there are already analagous things --
> like Gonzalo's example of callback functions -- that can be done without
> adding ugly syntax to Ruby.

Of course, it can be done. And everything you do with Ruby you can do
it with C++, java or whatever. But what I am looking for and this is
the important part of this email is

A simple, elegant notation for a very powerful and efficient feature!


So, people can see a "ruby syntax in 5 minutes page" and say: whoa
this language rocks! With this feature I know my code will be much
better.

I thought that when I saw blocks as methods parameters.
I guess I failed to make a "whoa!" syntax for this  :P

About the details. Do you mean the C implementation of this or how it
will be used in Ruby?



>
>   class Timer
>         def initialize(timeout)
>           @callbacks = []
>           @timeout = timeout
>         end
>         def register(cb)
>           @callbacks << cb
>         end
>         def unregister(cb)
>           @callbacks.delete(cb)
>         end
>         def clear_callbacks
>           @callbacks.clear
>         end
>         def start(*args)
>           th = Thread.new do
>                 loop do
>                   sleep(@timeout)
>                   @callbacks.each { |cb| cb.call(*args) }
>                 end
>           end
>         end
>   end
>
>   class Counter
>         attr_reader :value
>         def initialize(start = 0, max = nil)
>           @value = start.to_i
>           @callbacks = []
>           @max = max
>         end
>         def increment
>           @value += 1
>           @callbacks.each { |cb| cb.call } if @value > @max
>         end
>         def register(cb)
>           @callbacks << cb
>         end
>         def unregister(cb)
>           @callbacks.delete(cb)
>         end
>         def clear_callbacks
>           @callbacks.clear
>         end
>   end
>
>   class Page
>         def show_error; end
>         def initialize
>           @counter = Counter.new
>           @timer = Timer.new
>
>           @timer.register(lambda { @counter.update })
>           @counter.register(lambda { this.show_error })
>         end
>   end
>
> Where you call a callback isn't able to be generalized.

Also, callbacks for each signal, Timer or Counter may have a lot.
It is very possible, but compare that with almost no code if it is
built in. That's what I call beautifying a rocking feature :P

I see your point and agree, don't need to add it in the sense of Ruby
can work without it.



>
> -austin
> --
> Austin Ziegler * halostatue@gmail.com * http://www.halostatue.ca/
>                * austin@halostatue.ca * http://www.halostatue.ca/feed/
>                * austin@zieglers.ca
>

--
Jordi Polo

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