[#347506] how do you do this — George George <george.githinji@...>

Given an array of strings e.g.

20 messages 2009/10/01

[#347686] what do you enjoy in a ruby quiz? — Martin DeMello <martindemello@...>

I've noticed that the ruby quiz has been getting few responses of

22 messages 2009/10/04

[#347700] Count the number of times an element occurs in an array — Jim Burgess <jack.zelig@...>

Hi,

13 messages 2009/10/05

[#347715] regex simplifier? — Roger Pack <rogerpack2005@...>

Question.

17 messages 2009/10/05

[#347765] Ruby for the wrong reason — flebber <flebber.crue@...>

Hi

39 messages 2009/10/06
[#347774] Re: Ruby for the wrong reason — 7stud -- <bbxx789_05ss@...> 2009/10/06

flebber wrote:

[#347800] Re: Ruby for the wrong reason — James Edward Gray II <james@...> 2009/10/06

On Oct 6, 2009, at 1:16 AM, 7stud -- wrote:

[#347821] Re: Ruby for the wrong reason — 7stud -- <bbxx789_05ss@...> 2009/10/06

James Edward Gray II wrote:

[#347830] How to not display output of a system call. — Jerry Mr <jerry.piazza@...>

Lets say I have a Windows command line program that runs the following:

11 messages 2009/10/06

[#347871] Google Wave- I need contacts! — Tim Mcd <tmcdowell@...>

After 6 days, i finally got my gWave invite! ('and there was much

21 messages 2009/10/07
[#347889] Re: Google Wave- I need contacts! — Andrew Timberlake <andrew@...> 2009/10/07

Well, you could share the love (I'd love an invite) and build contacts

[#347899] Re: Google Wave- I need contacts! — Tim Mcd <tmcdowell@...> 2009/10/07

Andrew Timberlake wrote:

[#347904] Re: Google Wave- I need contacts! — Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca@...> 2009/10/07

Tim, when they restrict the rules you could ping this group for an

[#347909] Re: Google Wave- I need contacts! — Tim Mcd <tmcdowell@...> 2009/10/07

Rajinder Yadav wrote:

[#349016] Re: Google Wave- I need contacts! — Jarod Reid <jarod@...> 2009/10/28

i'd like an invite if you have a spare

[#350049] Re: Google Wave- I need contacts! — Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca@...> 2009/11/10

Jarod Reid wrote:

[#350081] Re: Google Wave- I need contacts! — Michael Weller <gibbsnich@...> 2009/11/10

Uhh, didn't hear of google wave before.

[#348042] Windows Ruby Version Check — James Edward Gray II <james@...>

Can a Windows Ruby user please confirm that the "Ruby 1.9.1-p129

11 messages 2009/10/09

[#348100] Class Level inheritable attributes - are we there yet? — dreamcat four <dreamcat4@...>

Hi,

34 messages 2009/10/10
[#348103] Re: Class Level inheritable attributes - are we there yet? — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2009/10/10

Hi --

[#348104] Re: Class Level inheritable attributes - are we there yet? — dreamcat four <dreamcat4@...> 2009/10/10

The problem with class variables in Ruby, is that a class variable is

[#348136] Re: Class Level inheritable attributes - are we there yet? — Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...> 2009/10/11

On 10/10/2009 08:59 PM, dreamcat four wrote:

[#348200] Re: Class Level inheritable attributes - are we there yet? — "ara.t.howard" <ara.t.howard@...> 2009/10/12

[#348231] Re: Class Level inheritable attributes - are we there yet? — "David A. Black" <dblack@...> 2009/10/12

On Tue, 13 Oct 2009, ara.t.howard wrote:

[#348248] Re: Class Level inheritable attributes - are we there yet? — "ara.t.howard" <ara.t.howard@...> 2009/10/13

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 17:48, David A. Black <dblack@rubypal.com> wrote:

[#348258] Re: Class Level inheritable attributes - are we there yet? — Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...> 2009/10/13

2009/10/13 ara.t.howard <ara.t.howard@gmail.com>:

[#348169] Does ruby.h overrides C "enum"? — Iñaki Baz Castillo <ibc@...>

Hi, writting a Ruby C extension (for 1.8 or 1.9) I get an error when using

19 messages 2009/10/12

[#348281] how to solve a special JRuby and Java syntax conflict? — "Axel Etzold" <AEtzold@...>

Dear all,

15 messages 2009/10/13
[#348285] Re: how to solve a special JRuby and Java syntax conflict? — Paul Smith <paul@...> 2009/10/13

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 8:52 PM, Axel Etzold <AEtzold@gmx.de> wrote:

[#348286] Re: how to solve a special JRuby and Java syntax conflict? — Paul Smith <paul@...> 2009/10/13

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Paul Smith <paul@pollyandpaul.co.uk> wrote:

[#348287] Re: how to solve a special JRuby and Java syntax conflict? — "Axel Etzold" <AEtzold@...> 2009/10/13

Dear Paul,

[#348290] Re: how to solve a special JRuby and Java syntax conflict? — "Walton Hoops" <walton@...> 2009/10/13

Axel Etzold wrote:

[#348325] Re: how to solve a special JRuby and Java syntax conflict? — "Axel Etzold" <AEtzold@...> 2009/10/14

[#348317] deep cloning, how? — Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca@...>

I am trying to figure out how to perform a deep clone

29 messages 2009/10/14
[#348330] Re: deep cloning, how? — Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...> 2009/10/14

2009/10/14 Rajinder Yadav <devguy.ca@gmail.com>:

[#348366] Re: deep cloning, how? — Caleb Clausen <vikkous@...> 2009/10/14

On 10/14/09, Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:

[#348379] Re: deep cloning, how? — Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...> 2009/10/14

On 14.10.2009 19:03, Caleb Clausen wrote:

[#348428] Re: deep cloning, how? — Caleb Clausen <vikkous@...> 2009/10/15

On 10/14/09, Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> wrote:

[#348449] Re: deep cloning, how? — Brian Candler <b.candler@...> 2009/10/16

Caleb Clausen wrote:0

[#348339] Hey you! Stop using relative requires! — Intransition <transfire@...>

I recently came across two different programs that had this line in a

22 messages 2009/10/14
[#348365] Re: Hey you! Stop using relative requires! — Tony Arcieri <tony@...> 2009/10/14

On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 6:01 AM, Intransition <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:

[#348401] matching against a zillion patterns — George George <george.githinji@...>

i have some script in which i would like to match a string against

18 messages 2009/10/15

[#348486] Dynamic nested each in ruby 1.8.7? — Toi Toi <toi@...>

How can one have a function that uses a dynamic amount of each

15 messages 2009/10/18

[#348570] memory leak — Rob Doug <broken.m@...>

Hi all,

27 messages 2009/10/20
[#348647] Re: memory leak — Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...> 2009/10/20

On 20.10.2009 03:10, Rob Doug wrote:

[#348655] Re: memory leak — Rob Doug <broken.m@...> 2009/10/20

[#348679] Re: memory leak — Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...> 2009/10/21

On 21.10.2009 00:47, Rob Doug wrote:

[#348718] Re: memory leak — Rob Doug <broken.m@...> 2009/10/22

> You could print out object statistics to get an idea about the source of

[#348727] Creating and raising custom exception in Ruby C extension — Iñaki Baz Castillo <ibc@...>

Hi, I'm trying to create a CustomError exception in a Ruby C extension and raise it:

8 messages 2009/10/22

[#348738] convert/replace a value of nil with 0? — Mmcolli00 Mom <mmc_collins@...>

Do you know how I can convert or replace any value that gets back a

12 messages 2009/10/22

[#348825] mail — Mikel Lindsaar <raasdnil@...>

Some of you might know about a little gem that Minero Aoki wrote called tmail.

15 messages 2009/10/25

[#348877] Array#collect in a method call, not working for me — Michael Randall <randallsata@...>

I am sure I'm making a newbie mistake, as I've just started learning

9 messages 2009/10/26

[#349004] duby 0.0.1 Released — Charles Oliver Nutter <headius@...>

duby version 0.0.1 has been released!

18 messages 2009/10/27
[#349007] Re: [ANN] duby 0.0.1 Released — "Bill Kelly" <billk@...> 2009/10/27

[#349022] Closures / lambda question — Aldric Giacomoni <aldric@...>

This is something I don't understand, and did not understand when I

13 messages 2009/10/28

[#349024] Desktop GUI apps in Ruby — Marnen Laibow-Koser <marnen@...>

Hi folks!

35 messages 2009/10/28

[#349099] Ruby can't subtract ? — Aldric Giacomoni <aldric@...>

I found this blog entry:

25 messages 2009/10/28
[#349100] Re: Ruby can't subtract ? — "Matthew K. Williams" <matt@...> 2009/10/28

On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, Aldric Giacomoni wrote:

[#349183] Using multicore CPUs in parallel tasks — Marc Hoeppner <marc.hoeppner@...>

Hi,

19 messages 2009/10/29
[#349203] Re: Using multicore CPUs in parallel tasks — Glen Holcomb <damnbigman@...> 2009/10/29

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Marc Hoeppner

[#349221] Re: Using multicore CPUs in parallel tasks — Tony Arcieri <tony@...> 2009/10/29

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Glen Holcomb <damnbigman@gmail.com> wrote:

[#349253] Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — RichardOnRails <RichardDummyMailbox58407@...>

Hi,

159 messages 2009/10/30
[#349303] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — RichardOnRails <RichardDummyMailbox58407@...> 2009/10/30

On Oct 29, 9:18瀾m, RichardOnRails

[#349307] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...> 2009/10/30

2009/10/30 RichardOnRails <RichardDummyMailbox58407@uscomputergurus.com>:

[#349337] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@...> 2009/10/30

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Robert Klemme

[#349600] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Tony Arcieri <tony@...> 2009/11/04

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@gmail.com>wrote:

[#349606] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — "Michael W. Ryder" <_mwryder55@...> 2009/11/04

Tony Arcieri wrote:

[#349607] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Tony Arcieri <tony@...> 2009/11/04

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Michael W. Ryder <_mwryder55@gmail.com>wrote:

[#349611] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Charles Oliver Nutter <headius@...> 2009/11/04

Of course I had to jump in here.

[#349633] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@...> 2009/11/04

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 1:58 AM, Charles Oliver Nutter

[#349635] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Marnen Laibow-Koser <marnen@...> 2009/11/04

Rick Denatale wrote:

[#349621] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Gavin Sinclair <gsinclair@...> 2009/11/04

On Nov 4, 5:58m, Charles Oliver Nutter <head...@headius.com> wrote:

[#349654] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Tony Arcieri <tony@...> 2009/11/04

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:55 AM, Gavin Sinclair <gsinclair@gmail.com> wrote:

[#349665] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — "Walton Hoops" <walton@...> 2009/11/04

> -----Original Message-----

[#349671] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — "Michael W. Ryder" <_mwryder55@...> 2009/11/04

Walton Hoops wrote:

[#349682] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — "Walton Hoops" <walton@...> 2009/11/04

> -----Original Message-----

[#349688] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — "Michael W. Ryder" <_mwryder55@...> 2009/11/04

Walton Hoops wrote:

[#349689] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Marnen Laibow-Koser <marnen@...> 2009/11/04

Michael W. Ryder wrote:

[#349693] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — "Walton Hoops" <walton@...> 2009/11/04

> -----Original Message-----

[#349814] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Seebs <usenet-nospam@...> 2009/11/06

On 2009-11-06, David A. Black <dblack@rubypal.com> wrote:

[#349879] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Tony Arcieri <tony@...> 2009/11/08

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 4:30 PM, Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> wrote:

[#349880] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@...> 2009/11/08

On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Tony Arcieri <tony@medioh.com> wrote:

[#349885] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Tony Arcieri <tony@...> 2009/11/08

On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 10:45 AM, Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@gmail.com>wrote:

[#349886] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Marnen Laibow-Koser <marnen@...> 2009/11/08

Tony Arcieri wrote:

[#349887] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Tony Arcieri <tony@...> 2009/11/08

On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Marnen Laibow-Koser <marnen@marnen.org>wrote:

[#349889] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — "Walton Hoops" <walton@...> 2009/11/08

> -----Original Message-----

[#349892] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Tony Arcieri <tony@...> 2009/11/08

On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Walton Hoops <walton@vyper.hopto.org>wrote:

[#349898] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — "Walton Hoops" <walton@...> 2009/11/08

> From: bascule@gmail.com [mailto:bascule@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Tony

[#349900] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Tony Arcieri <tony@...> 2009/11/08

On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Walton Hoops <walton@vyper.hopto.org> wrote:

[#349980] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Seebs <usenet-nospam@...> 2009/11/09

On 2009-11-09, Marnen Laibow-Koser <marnen@marnen.org> wrote:

[#349988] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Rick DeNatale <rick.denatale@...> 2009/11/09

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> wrote:

[#349989] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Marnen Laibow-Koser <marnen@...> 2009/11/09

Rick Denatale wrote:

[#349994] Re: Ruby doesn't implement x++ for Fixnum's because ??? — Aldric Giacomoni <aldric@...> 2009/11/09

Marnen Laibow-Koser wrote:

[#349264] How do you get the tail end of a string? — "Just Another Victim of the Ambient Morality" <ihatespam@...>

I'm actually hoping this is an embarrassing question but how do you get

55 messages 2009/10/30
[#349266] Re: How do you get the tail end of a string? — "Michael W. Ryder" <_mwryder55@...> 2009/10/30

Just Another Victim of the Ambient Morality wrote:

[#349267] Re: How do you get the tail end of a string? — "Michael W. Ryder" <_mwryder55@...> 2009/10/30

Michael W. Ryder wrote:

[#349286] Re: How do you get the tail end of a string? — Bertram Scharpf <lists@...> 2009/10/30

Hi,

[#349323] Merging hashes using both symbols and strings as keys — shenry <stuarthenry@...>

I'm trying to merge to hashes, one using symbols as keys (the defined

15 messages 2009/10/30
[#349528] Re: Merging hashes using both symbols and strings as keys — Josh Cheek <josh.cheek@...> 2009/11/03

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 11:10 AM, shenry <stuarthenry@gmail.com> wrote:

[#349352] In-place parameter modification — Dave Anderson <anderson@...>

Native to ruby are several methods that change passed-in parameters

17 messages 2009/10/30

[#349406] Hamurabi (#223) — Daniel Moore <yahivin@...>

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

23 messages 2009/10/31
[#349451] Re: [QUIZ] Hamurabi (#223) — James Edward Gray II <james@...> 2009/11/01

On Oct 31, 2009, at 6:23 PM, Daniel Moore wrote:

[#349498] Re: [QUIZ] Hamurabi (#223) — Martin DeMello <martindemello@...> 2009/11/02

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 5:29 AM, James Edward Gray II

Re: Class Level inheritable attributes - are we there yet?

From: Robert Klemme <shortcutter@...>
Date: 2009-10-13 14:45:21 UTC
List: ruby-talk #348273
2009/10/13 Dreamcat Four <dreamcat4@gmail.com>:
> Before answering to Roberts specific questions, as the OP i'd like to
> show the 'common sense' analogy from an outsiders perspective. This
> analogy is of real-life taxonomy, and real darwinian evolution. Its sort
> of 'how nature would do it'.
>
> So a class is the species of animal.
> An instance object is an individual animal that has been born, and is
> living.
>
> The sub-species (subclass) will inherit everything and permutate /
> mutate the ancestor class.
> An object instance can inherit all of the same. The difference is that a
> species doesn't individually live many lives, it is 'a model instance'.
> Wheras an object instance is free to lead any kind of a life, and there
> may be many permutations of such.
>
> The species are in evolution are generally minimal. (you only get new
> ones when they are peoperly justified). There can be many objects, but
> comparatively few species.
>
> One species of centipide has 5 body segments and 10 legs
> All instances of that species also has 5 body segments and 10 legs
> They also have common behaviours (methods) such as running, twisting,
> etc.
>
> A new sub-species (subclass) is formed which has [6 seg, 12 legs]. But
> it still has 5 eyes, 1 mouth, and so on. These are inherited values. The
> new species can't correctly execute its inherited methods {run and
> twist} if its body mechanism (when derived) always ever inherits a
> default number of 0 arms, 0 legs, 0 body segments, and 0 everything
> else.

This is a classical case I would resolve with instance methods that
return constant values because the information is not needed at class
level but at instance level.  So we get

class Centipide
  def mouths; 1 end
  def eyes; 5; end
  def body_segments; 5 end
  def legs; 10 end

  def run
    puts "opening my #{eyes} eyes and starting to move"

    legs.times do |i|
      puts "moving leg #{i}"
    end
  end
end

class SubCenti < Centipide
  def body_segments; 5 end
  def legs; 10 end
end

Strictly speaking the class does not have segments, legs etc. - only
instances have.  The scheme with instance methods can be kept even if
you provide for individual (i.e. per object) values by providing a
default via constant methods similar to those shown above.

> 1) So above is the 'common sense' paradigm. (actually i originally was
> asking around for). So clearly meaning its requiring deep-copy. But
> because we are talking about classes and not object then there should be
> much fewer of declared in your program.

Btw, deep copy is usually used in the context of copying object
graphs.  If I understand you correctly you mean something else
(inheriting values through hierarchies).

> 2) To share same attribute amongst classes (with rubys default shallow
> copy) are generally helpful for certain global constant etc in a library
> environment. (myself didn't ask for that but its clearly both variation
> are needed).

Again, shallow copy seems to be a misnomer here.

> 3) When in ruby we instantiate an object, we don't always want to copy
> these same attributes above (1 and 2) into the instance. (whether or not
> they are type 1 or 2 doesn't matter). Reason: not want to deep-copy
> excessively because we can have many instance object (which may or may
> not use the class attribute). For example, think of the lazy centipede.
> It wants to {twist and wriggle}, but can't be bothered to run, so it
> doesn't hardly ever use its legs. So if we chopped the legs off, it
> wouldn't matter for the most part.

:-)

> Robert Klemme wrote:
>> 2009/10/13 ara.t.howard <ara.t.howard@gmail.com>:
>> OK, let's start over. or that first I would like to understand what
>> the problem actually is that needs to be solved here. here are many
>> aspects to this and I would love to see something like a requirements
>> list which particularly states the problem. uestions I have in mind:
>>
>> - Do those attributes need to change or are they set once (quasi /
>> real constant)?
>
> Yes, they need to be able to change and be any regular ruby object.
> As per case 1)
>
>> - If a subclass inherits a value from the superclass is it supposed to
>> inherit changes to the value as well?
>
> No for 1), yes for 2)
>
>> - What happens if a super class has its attribute unset? ou might
>> want to retain all sub class values - or not.
>
> Thats the same answer as the previous question.
>
>> - What happens if a super class has its attribute set? ou might want
>> to override all sub class values at this moment.
>
> Thats also the same answer as per the previous question.
> Or i dont understand these questions.
>
>> - Must modules along the inheritance chain get their own values or is
>> the feature in question restricted to class instances? Note, it's
>> almost impossible to include modules here because they may be part of
>> multiple inheritance chains.)
>
> We don't want any polymorphic behaviour because it doesn't fit right
> with natural evolution. In nature you can't cross a horse species with a
> duck species to have a flying horse eh?

But you can have duck typing!  ;-)

>> - Is the feature expected to work with different combinations to the
>> questions above.
>
> Yes.
> Its important to cover the fewest number of cases, and ensure a clear
> differentiation between them. Im not 100% sure that fattr.rb syntax is
> the best / most readable.

My understanding of the above is this.  You have two use cases in mind:

1. Inheriting dynamic attribute values defining a proximity rule, i.e.
when asked you get the closest attribute.

2. Constants which with the same proximity lookup rule as above only
that values do not change after the initialization.

> And also before we implement a solution, i hope also we can work out a
> good clear syntax and do good example usages beforehand. Find the best
> (to the end user) presentation so to show clearly and differentiate
> between them. Otherwise it could be very unfriendly / confusing.

Yes, although the syntax could be viewed as part of the solution.
Before promoting something to the standard library I would also like
to know how much use cases there are.  In other words if (unlikely
worst case) you and Ara would be the only once that have a need for
this then I'd vote for not including in the std lib.

Right now I have two issues:

1. I still have not seen a use case which would cry for a library
solution which is not there yet (see above).  (I still need to ponder
the board example in your other email.)

2. It seems there are not many people wanting this (yet) - which might
well be caused by the fact that I don't read every single posting to
ruby-talk.  I do have a feeling though that if there was massive
demand for this we would see it in the std lib by now.

Kind regards

robert


-- 
remember.guy do |as, often| as.you_can - without end
http://blog.rubybestpractices.com/

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